Curse

Kashrlyyk · Feb 09, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Another post from Gaile: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...&postcount=286

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Why the punishment against kind people who gave theirs away?

I don't even know if I can answer this, because the question just seems so wrong. I'll try with an analogy.

I have $10. I give it to the Salvation Army bell ringers at Christmas. I feel good, someone else benefits, all is well.

I have $10 and I don't give it away. I can go buy a pair of socks with the money. I don't feel as good, no one else benefits, but in a different way all is well.

I think the difference that someone will say is "We didn't know the miniature rat was a commodity." My answer is "Yes, you did, because all miniatures have a sales price." If the sales price is higher right now, because of the trade offer, I understand -- it's like a fluctuation in the economy, and my $10 is suddenly worth $20 or two pairs of socks. But does that automatically mean that we shouldn't have offered the miniature, because some people don't have the minis, never had the minis, had the minis and sold them, had the minis and gave them away, etc., etc.? I don't think it means that, while I understand that some of you do.

My nephew had all the Star Wars (first run) action figures as a child. His mother gave them to charity. Should they hit the charity for some money off of those figures, because the figures are worth more than the family thought they would be? No. They did what they wanted to do, when they did it, and if in hindsight they regret it, they still know they did a positive thing.

As to finding a way to "reward" those who were generous: It's a nice idea, and I wish it were possible. However, it's not possible for us to go back in time to inspect an account and find out "Fred had five minis and gave them to friends." We cannot tell if he had them, didn't have them, gave them, sold them, or binned them because of space considerations. So ultimately, the reward that you got for being selfless and giving your miniature pigs to others was their gratitude and the good feeling that you had from the giving. If that is not worth as much to you as a ham hock on the new mini, I'm sorry. I gave a lot of miniature pigs out myself, as I was at all events last year and had a few to share, plus I bought some when the price was low to give to new players. I'm not bitter that I can't capitalize on those minis, or that I can't make a bunch of celestials and sell them for a high price. I got my reward through what I did. I hope that at least some of you feel the same way and I am sincerely sorry if others do not.

Mickey · Feb 09, 2008, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Gaile is so near sided that she doesn't see the point that is trying to be made. Person A gives Person B a gift, which happens to be a Miniature Pig, so Person B can keep the Mini Pig, because Person B missed the event. Anet comes along and implements a collector that gives a gold mini pet away for 5 of these Miniature Pigs. Suddenly, Person B's mini pig is worth 20, 30, 40 k, instead of how it was at 5 k. Person B sells the mini Pig, and gains money off the GIFT that Person A gave to them. Now, unless your person A, and you've been hoarding Mini Pigs, how does this seem fair? Do you expect to give a gift to someone to see them turn around and sell it for 6x the amount?

Lilanthe · Feb 09, 2008, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Gaile's analogy is wrong, you can't compare minipigs which had absolutely no use at the time, with cash which you can buy anything and everything.

A correct analogy would be.

I participated to a special one-time weekend in a year rock show, everybody got free (identical) t-shirt of the event, but the show staff had too much t-shirts still, so they threw boxes of these t-shirts amongst the audience.

Alot of people arrived on Monday, and they were like, crap we missed the show, damn... and wow, these t-shirts look so cool.

Some of the most fortunate ones that had multiple t-shirts said "Bah, I don't really need more than one, else it would be just a waste of space in my closet, I mean, a dozen of the same t-shirt ? And it will make these guys happy. Here guys, take my surplus."

The next year, the show is back, but this time, the announcer says: "Last year we gave too many t-shirts, so those of you who still have at least five of them, you can exchange it for a special signed t-shirt of the entire rock band. You cannot buy these t-shirt guys, only those who have five t-shirts from last year !"

Feathermoore Rep · Feb 09, 2008, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Your all completely missing the point. The point is not to reward the greedy or punish the generous or casual player. The point is that ANet put WAY more mini pigs into the economy then they desired. So inorder to remove some of the mini pigs from the game, they basically offered an upgraded celestial pig for the trade of 5 old mini pigs.

And you give gift to be nice and take care of your friends. If I buy a friend a present and then a year later he sells it for whatever reason, I'm not going to be like WTH I GAVE THAT TO YOU! I gave it to them, and they have every right to do as they please with it. Just like I'm not going to be like Oh thats now worth alot of money can I have it back please?

As well, all of this is free from ANet. They don't have to give us jack sh!t. But instead we have an awesome festival to coincide with the real life chinese new year, complete with mini games, prizes, and mini pets. But hey, I've said this three times now, and no ones seems to get it still.

wetsparks · Feb 09, 2008, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

It's "weird" no reply from Anet staff about this, they don't seem to accept that they are wrong and we're right. Truth hurts huh

They were wrong to ask people to give up 5 mini pigs for a mini pig that glows and you can see through. But the greediness of this community definitely isn't right.

And feathermoore rep, I totally get you and agree with you, and I like lilanthe's analogy a lot better than Gailes.

Vinraith · Feb 09, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

The net effect here is simply to kill any interest I have in participating in the event. I haven't the money to go buy back the pigs I gave away, and I'm certainly not going to farm to get it. They introduced something I would have gotten had I been aware of it, and can't get because I wasn't. Whatever. I think I'll go play a game that doesn't jerk me around, now.

Alex Morningstar · Feb 09, 2008, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

Your all completely missing the point. The point is not to reward the greedy or punish the generous or casual player. The point is that ANet put WAY more mini pigs into the economy then they desired. So inorder to remove some of the mini pigs from the game, they basically offered an upgraded celestial pig for the trade of 5 old mini pigs.

And you give gift to be nice and take care of your friends. If I buy a friend a present and then a year later he sells it for whatever reason, I'm not going to be like WTH I GAVE THAT TO YOU! I gave it to them, and they have every right to do as they please with it. Just like I'm not going to be like Oh thats now worth alot of money can I have it back please?

As well, all of this is free from ANet. They don't have to give us jack sh!t. But instead we have an awesome festival to coincide with the real life chinese new year, complete with mini games, prizes, and mini pets. But hey, I've said this three times now, and no ones seems to get it still.

QFT.

Seriously, you guys need to quit crying about the mini pig thing. They weren't worth shit until now, and I know plenty (not all, so stfu before you flame) of the people crying about giving them away to someone who didn't have one only did so because there were so many of them and they weren't worth anything and took up space, not out of the kindness of their hearts.

When will you realize that things that are worthless today may quite possibly be worth a lot tomorrow. It's economy folks. Some people have a lot, a lot more people have a little. Nice people who are nice to others don't generally get rewarded. Such is the way of life; get used to it and move on. Anet hasn't really been big on altering things because (greedy) people didn't think it was 'fair'.

DivineEnvoy · Feb 09, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I don't even know if I can answer this, because the question just seems so wrong. I'll try with an analogy.

I have $10. I give it to the Salvation Army bell ringers at Christmas. I feel good, someone else benefits, all is well.

I have $10 and I don't give it away. I can go buy a pair of socks with the money. I don't feel as good, no one else benefits, but in a different way all is well.

I think the difference that someone will say is "We didn't know the miniature rat was a commodity." My answer is "Yes, you did, because all miniatures have a sales price." If the sales price is higher right now, because of the trade offer, I understand -- it's like a fluctuation in the economy, and my $10 is suddenly worth $20 or two pairs of socks. But does that automatically mean that we shouldn't have offered the miniature, because some people don't have the minis, never had the minis, had the minis and sold them, had the minis and gave them away, etc., etc.? I don't think it means that, while I understand that some of you do.

My nephew had all the Star Wars (first run) action figures as a child. His mother gave them to charity. Should they hit the charity for some money off of those figures, because the figures are worth more than the family thought they would be? No. They did what they wanted to do, when they did it, and if in hindsight they regret it, they still know they did a positive thing.

As to finding a way to "reward" those who were generous: It's a nice idea, and I wish it were possible. However, it's not possible for us to go back in time to inspect an account and find out "Fred had five minis and gave them to friends." We cannot tell if he had them, didn't have them, gave them, sold them, or binned them because of space considerations. So ultimately, the reward that you got for being selfless and giving your miniature pigs to others was their gratitude and the good feeling that you had from the giving. If that is not worth as much to you as a ham hock on the new mini, I'm sorry. I gave a lot of miniature pigs out myself, as I was at all events last year and had a few to share, plus I bought some when the price was low to give to new players. I'm not bitter that I can't capitalize on those minis, or that I can't make a bunch of celestials and sell them for a high price. I got my reward through what I did. I hope that at least some of you feel the same way and I am sincerely sorry if others do not.

I believe the situation is different. It is more like the following:

Person A has $10. He gives it to the Salvation Army bell ringers at Christmas. He feels good, someone else benefits, all is well.

Person B has $10 and he didn't give it away. He can go buy a pair of socks with the money. He feels just as good as he believes he can make a profit later, but in a different way all is well.

Later the government comes in and tells everyone that they are printing a new set of bills, and people who were able to trade in their old bills will receive five times the amount with the new bills.

Now we observe the following:

Person A has no money, because he gave it to charity.

Person B now has 50 dollars, since he didn't give it away.

In this sense, we can clearly see that people who kept the money to themselves have been rewarded, and in contrast, people who were generous, in this sense, were punished.

Perhaps it is possible to claim that inflations will cause the same consequence, but such economic events cannot be prevented. However, in this case, we can clearly see that such problem could have been prevented as it was more or less a decision made by the government, and in this case, Anet. We are not here to rant about general ideas that we will not be able to receive this additional reward for our generosity, but instead, by making a situation like this, which it seems that people who kept the pigs to themselves have earned a reward in general, many of us, players with strong morals, would like things to change.

Gli · Feb 09, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

This is very funny coming from someone accusing me of not reading his posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Then who else the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO has hordes of minipigs?

I offered what I guess to be the answer in the very post you quoted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I find it much more likely that the only people who have stashes of mini pigs have them because it's their habit to keep stashes of things, i.e. the packrats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You're just as bad as the rest of them.

Just as bad as whom? And actually how bad did you have in mind? More or less bad than someone who cheats people who want a trim on their cape out of 20k?

Snow Bunny · Feb 09, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Why would poor players have hordes of minipigs? Poor players would likely have sold off the surplus, as 1K is real money to them.
IMO the people with hordes of minipigs are people with multiple accounts and/or numerous mules - guys with lots of storage space and for whom 1-2K/ea isn't enough money to sell.

Your logic on this is wrong, but whatever.

The poorer players won't be able to afford other minipets, and since no one else will buy them, they accumulate them from buying them/charity of others.

Who else wants them?

That's right, no one.

Jongo River · Feb 09, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Well, I guess there are two sides to every argument, but I really do not understand ANet's thinking on this. Their converts can explain all they like, but the whole pet trade scheme strikes me as bizarre to the point of being completely crazy.

Personally, I'm taking the weekend off and maybe try and extract myself from this game permanently.

Gli · Feb 09, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Because no one seems to be able to come up with a decent analogy, I'll have a stab at it.

It's Februari 2007 and Mini Pig Publishing decides to go public with stock. Seeing how this looks to be a promising company, investors go out and get some. A bit later, after auditing, it turns out that MPP was just a bubble. There's nothing in the books and the shares they gave out turn out to be hardly more precious than the paper they were printed on. The company folds.

Now, there's all these pieces of paper floating around, and they fast become a joke. People trade for them using Monopoly money, they use them to light cigars (always a cracker at drunken frat parties!) Some people never get over it, but hey, such is life, what do you do? Companies fail left and right, nothing special about this one.

And then, one fine morning a year later, the government steps in, announcing that as an attempt to fix an ailing econony, they will focus on this arbitrary one defunct company, give it a second beginning with a huge injection of community money, under the name Celestial Pig Publishing. For no apparent reason, they offer to trade old stale and useless MPP stock for fresh, minty powerful new CPP stock.

The world can't help but wonder how much MPP stock Dick Cheney and friends still have stashed away.

enmitee · Feb 09, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

That analogy is win

ElinoraNeSangre · Feb 09, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

apparently some people just don't get it. my pc exploded, so I am typing on my ps3. in short, anet rewarded greedy people. that's injustice. have a lovely evening.

I get it, actually.

I had a lot of mini pigs after last year. I gave almost all of them away to friends.

I regret nothing. They were given from my heart, to friends, to a random stranger who complimented my armor and became my friend. I gave them away because I wished to, because I wanted to give. From your posts here, I know you did the same. So I know exactly how you feel, and I know what you're saying.

But know that you gave joy to someone for giving them that little gift, and in the end, it's worth a lot more than pixels (trust me!). I gave one to someone who was having a rough time, who really needed a friend and something to cheer him up. No amount of ingame pixels will replace the friendship that grew from it.

It's taken me time to get to this point, and it's funny that it happened when it did; while I'm making this post on 2/9, I started it and came to a realization on 2/8 (when Rahja's post was still the newest one in the thread!). It's the exact day I started playing this game 2 years ago. The realization being, it doesn't matter. I'm still kicking myself for how long I spent going after that stupid mini polar bear (or heck, on farming, or grinding for armor, or any of it) when I could have been spending my time doing something else. Maybe it's that I'm going back to college at 30, or any other number of random things about life that would bore you guys.

Maybe I'm half drunk and rambling on the internet (actually that's a certainty). You get the point. I know the point is that you feel like nice guys finish last, but in the long run, it's different. Don't get me wrong, I don't really like how this pig thing is happening (I think having to trade in 5 to get 1 is just an awful idea), but I'm also aware it's largely a byproduct of people complaining that the pigs were so common that the price is low. They got what they wanted, and I hope they're happy with it. I don't so much feel screwed or anything so much as just disenchanted.

Me, I'm probably not going to partake of the event much this year. My time on GW this weekend will probably mostly be limited to taking shots for Tyria's Most Wanted Male.

gone · Feb 09, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Do you want Goodwill to give your clothing back?

Lollergazmz - I still have my bell bottoms and pin stripped calvin kleins.
-that doesn't stop me from going to the local 'will and check pockets. a box full of purses is almost like a goldmine. -you'd be surprised what you find.

as far as my other post not making sense, lol. i'll let it be.

fRag_Doll · Feb 09, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by enmitee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Because no one seems to be able to come up with a decent analogy, I'll have a stab at it.

It's Februari 2007 and Mini Pig Publishing decides to go public with stock. Seeing how this looks to be a promising company, investors go out and get some. A bit later, after auditing, it turns out that MPP was just a bubble. There's nothing in the books and the shares they gave out turn out to be hardly more precious than the paper they were printed on. The company folds.

Now, there's all these pieces of paper floating around, and they fast become a joke. People trade for them using Monopoly money, they use them to light cigars (always a cracker at drunken frat parties!) Some people never get over it, but hey, such is life, what do you do? Companies fail left and right, nothing special about this one.

And then, one fine morning a year later, the government steps in, announcing that as an attempt to fix an ailing econony, they will focus on this arbitrary one defunct company, give it a second beginning with a huge injection of community money, under the name Celestial Pig Publishing. For no apparent reason, they offer to trade old stale and useless MPP stock for fresh, minty powerful new CPP stock.

The world can't help but wonder how much MPP stock Dick Cheney and friends still have stashed away.

That analogy is win

Indeed, it is chock full of win.

To be honest I'm just about ****ing sick of this game. Guild Wars has taken too many hits from the Flail of Fail since ANet all but abandoned it in favor of GW2. I was looking forward to GW2, but given ANet's declining ability to understand their player base, I'm on the edge of walking away from Tyria forever.
Honestly, which fool came up with the idea to introduce a new mini that can only be achieved by hoarding an item from a year ago that doesn't stack, was nearly worthless, and is now virtually unobtainable?
Or better yet, what idiot approved said idea?

raven214 · Feb 09, 2008, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp

But it certainly is a pain that the average player who either didn't save 5 pigs from last year or doesn't have the 100k-500k to buy the 5 pigs, or doesn't want to spend the 100k-500k to buy the 5 pigs are pretty much screwed or encouraged to break the EULA just so they can havethe nice new 'FREE" mini pet...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForgeWhelp

Last year:
What's that you say? You missed the event and didn't get a pig? Here, take one of mine....

This year:
What's that you say? You didn't keep at least 5 pigs for yourself? HAHAAHHAH LOL PWNT NOOB. Would you like to buy one of mine? It's on sale for 50k.

Quite sadly QFT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randvek

The thing that really sucks about this is that it's a reward to people who hoard. I've given away tons of minipigs. So have hundreds, nay thousands, of other people.

Good thing we have ArenaNet to tell us that no good deed goes unpunished, eh?

Agreed. I thought ANet didn't (or at least tries not to) encourage hoarding. We all know their limited storage options sure as heck don't make it the most feasible thing to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
The Miniature Pigs: There are just too many of these "out there" in the overall scope of things. Too many people got them in too many final events last year and they have (or at least had) a rather pitiable value. The fact that too many received them last year is the reason that minis are not the end-event gift this year. Changing that will make things more meaningful on several levels. The large number of minis is why the designers came up with a nice (and agreeable) means to balance the Miniature Pigs while rewarding players who did have them and did choose to keep them. For if you think about it, the most dedicated miniature collectors are probably the ones for whom a trade-in will mean something, and they are the ones who may still have them, or will be incented to trade for them. A lot of the dissent about the exchange offer seems to center on elements other than the core factor, and that core factor is this: Players have the ability to acquire a new item, which is something that players request all the time.

You call this an agreeable means? Wow. I consider myself a fairly typical GW player and mini collector. At last count, I've got 3 mini pigs. 1 is my collection's = he's going nowhere. That leaves me with 2 extra. I'm not independently wealthy so exactly how do I afford the other 3 over the course of the next 48 - 72 hours?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

Are you telling me that not one single person is selling mini pigs in Kamadan? We both know that's bull. The difference is that you don't want to pay the asking price. You'd rather whine, and whine about it. Stop being spoiled and lazy. Go play the game for the rewards you want to EARN instead of crying on a forum.

Let's see. I have about 25k right now and 2 pigs. So, using 50k per 3 more pigs as an example, I "only" need 125k. Oh, also, I have only till Monday to get this. And I have work this weekend. And I'm not a farmer. And this is all for a freakin minipet. Well, guess I'll go earn over 100k in the next few hours of game time...

GG ANet.

arcanemacabre · Feb 09, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven214

Let's see. I have about 25k right now and 2 pigs. So, using 50k per 3 more pigs as an example, I "only" need 125k. Oh, also, I have only till Monday to get this. And I have work this weekend. And I'm not a farmer. And this is all for a freakin minipet. Well, guess I'll go earn over 100k in the next few hours of game time...

GG ANet.

Yeesh. While I may agree with the principle, 125k for 3 pigs? Where are you shopping? Last I saw people were selling undedicated at 15k each, and dedicated (which does work with the trader) at 10k or less. It does suck to have to shell out money in such a limited amount of time to get this, but you can do it even in a few hours.

Also, it might be best to just wait. These celestials will be around 15-20k after the event, at most. If you sell the two extra pigs you have now, you could probably use that money to buy this bugger later, and you get the same end.

I mean, unless you were planning on making a profit on this. If so, I have no pity.

jayson · Feb 09, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

I gave away several pigs to people for free because I only wanted one and I couldn't be bothered to sell or store multiples because they were basicly worthless. The problem here I feel is that Anet stepped in and artificially inflated the value of this mini. This started when the drop rate from last year was too low. They attempted to correct it but ended up shelling out too many. The idea of the exchange for the celestial wasn't actually a bad idea but needing 5 mini pigs was too high a number. A 2 for 1 deal would probably have been the best option here. Anyone that got a free mini pig last year from someone giving them away could still sell them and you'd still be cutting the numbers in half. I honestly think someone was on the right track in regards to this gold mini and how many should be currently in circulation. This I feel might have been the motivation for the 5 to 1 ratio. The best option here would probably to have let the situation resolve itself. The overflow of this mini would probably have been binned eventually reducing the numbers by itself.

raven214 · Feb 09, 2008, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Yeesh. While I may agree with the principle, 125k for 3 pigs? Where are you shopping? Last I saw people were selling undedicated at 15k each, and dedicated (which does work with the trader) at 10k or less. It does suck to have to shell out money in such a limited amount of time to get this, but you can do it even in a few hours.

Also, it might be best to just wait. These celestials will be around 15-20k after the event, at most. If you sell the two extra pigs you have now, you could probably use that money to buy this bugger later, and you get the same end.

I mean, unless you were planning on making a profit on this. If so, I have no pity.

I was just going off some numbers I had read here and seen in-game. 30k is a lot more reasonable, though I still think a 2 for 1 ratio would have been perfectly appropriate (to reduce the supply and yet not be outrageous). And by no means am I trying to make a profit.